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February 22, 2006
Great Response to "Lawyers As Trusted Advisors"
In response to the post immediately below on Arnie Herz's "Lawyers As Trusted Advisors", I received a great comment from Mr. Moe Levine which is self-explanatory and republished virtually verbatim below:
Unfortunately, clients and markets are smart enough to understand that they don't want lawyers as trusted advisers.
There is a lawyer and sociologist named Mark Suchman, he used to teach at Wisconsin and now is on the West Coast, who has written very extensively on the fact that over time lawyers relationships with clients must deteriorate, because clients learn to do more and more for themselves. His best paper was delivered in about 1992 to a Bar Program in Chicago. The basic idea is that the more clients can do for themselves, the less they need lawyers and the more task specific lawyer client relationships will become. He really paints as excellent picture of what the practice has become and where it is headed.
I agree with 95% of what Moe is saying here. In fact, my firm wants its clients to not need or use us for things they can do themselves. We like that. That's good. When a client can do things on its own, that's an enormously satisfying moment for us--and a lot of what lawyering (and this blog) is all about. Smaller clients and start-ups can be taught to do lots of things on their own; common examples are safe hiring/firing practices, conducting a sexual harassment investigation, self-audits for environmental compliance, trademark and copyright applications and keeping corporate minutes.
You are finally adding value as a lawyer when you teach clients how to do these types of things and teach them when they really need a lawyer. Once "taught" they can bring more difficult matters to you and ones which don't fall under the category of "putting out [unnecessary] fires". The challenge is: (1) getting new businesses to spend money on lawyering in the initial stages of development or when a problem comes up for the first time, (2) teaching clients to do things themselves, or with minimum of our help, and (3) educating them on when they need lawyers and when they don't. You may lose "short-term" money, but you get in return long-term clients, more interesting work in which you are really "helping" and a real relationship with a client where the lawyer is valued as an advisor. And you have trust.
Posted by JD Hull at February 22, 2006 06:39 PM
Comments
JD,
And you were going to run me off :<)
Your business model has a fatal assumption, that there will be work left that the client cannot do. Suchman paints a pretty good picture that such is not true
Best regards,
Moe
Posted by: Moe Levine at February 22, 2006 02:42 PM
Thanks, Moe. So far the assumption seems to be valid for some practices/firms (mine, others). As time goes on and the client becomes more self-sufficent, the relationship becomes stronger, and more lucrative long-term for the lawyer. Actual experience might prove Suchman--who I'll bet money is primarily an academic--to be wrong in at least a few cases. Dan
Posted by: Dan Hull at February 22, 2006 04:34 PM
Dan,
need your 2 cents. I try to help 5 or 6 young solo lawyers survive. one calls at the end of the week. he knows a wealthy local family that has someone idea they believe involves patents. the family is just back from a visit with their lawyers, who quoted $600 an hour for the work. the fur is flying
now I can see a SV or NY or DC firm @ $600, but this firm is not even in the NLJ 250--the firm has 150+ lawyers in the central Midwest
I told this young lawyer to go to lunch with the client, charge nothing, and offer to find, somewhere in America, the right lawyer for this problem. I offered him my rolodex, which is damn small (15/20 names, tops). any suggestions as to the questions he should ask? any suggestions as to how to find someone to whom this can be referred, given that as hot as IP is, I know that getting a good lawyer is hard--they are all taken
and, let me add, the situation involves China, viz you post that all lawyers need to be international.
Posted by: Moe Levine at February 26, 2006 10:02 AM
Moe--Tried to e-mail you yesterday but it just came back...anyway...that rate is too high and I can recommend good IP people who are way less expensive in a couple of major cities. Have these "young solo people" call me. Or e-mail me. Dan
Posted by: Dan Hull at February 27, 2006 12:25 PM
I am passing on your name
Moe
Posted by: Moe Levine at March 2, 2006 07:49 PM